If Cyclists & Runners ran the Country
Download MP3I started thinking about the cycle that we're in and the elections, and as a community, there are issues that we actually face. Right?
Anthony:Yeah.
Terrance:So what I wanted to do, particularly for this episode, is I wanted to be what I am and that solutions oriented, but I wanted to put a little twist on it and from a political perspective, address issues that I feel are related to the community.
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Terrance:Welcome to Spoke and Sole, home of The Essential Athlete. I'm Terrance, here with Anthony, and today we're gonna do something that we normally don't do. We're gonna be getting to the root of some of the issues that we feel our community faces. So lace up, clip in, and let's get into it.
Anthony:Yeah, man. So
Terrance:at least once a week, I gotta get gas. At least once a week, Sandy has to go out and get food. Yep. We're in a current environment where there are a lot of issues that people are actually struggling with. And when this time of year rolls around every two years, you have a bunch of people or you have these two parties who are vying for you to support them under the guise that they're gonna work on providing solutions to your issues.
Terrance:So I started thinking about this and sometimes, you know, my mind goes a little bit crazy. So I wanted to have a little fun with this, but I also wanted to look at some of the actual real issues. So I came up with this concept. And I'm gonna tell you right now, I came up with whether I think it's, reflections of the current parties that are in existence but with the twist. And I'm gonna represent one side, and I'm gonna allow you to represent two sides.
Terrance:And I'll tell you why I'm gonna allow you to represent two sides in a second. I'm going to be of the party called the peloticians.
Anthony:Oh, okay. I like that. The peloticians.
Terrance:And you are gonna be the solocrats and the tri pendants. Okay.
Anthony:And it's funny you say that too because in preparation for this, my my son actually became really engulfed in this, and we were discussing this yesterday on a ride back from New York.
Terrance:Oh yeah.
Anthony:And we were talking about the parties, you know, we were talking about, and he, so I have some ammunition because, and it's funny because he, we were talking about that, we were talking about, okay, well maybe, you know, and we didn't get to the RunnerCrafts, but we said, you know, maybe the RunnerCrafts could
Terrance:be I like RunnerCrafts.
Anthony:Yes, the RunnerCrafts could be, you know, maybe the Runners and slash to the Democratic side and maybe he said how the Bite, the Cyclists could represent possibly the, the Republican, piece. And then he said that the Triathlete could be, the triathlete or the duathlon slash triathlete could be the independent based on their views or their combination of the two parties.
Terrance:Well, I'm not gonna associate Cyclists with either side, But the peloticians.
Anthony:Okay.
Terrance:We we are we are starting our own party. Okay. And I have a list of issues that we readily face that we are gonna actually propose some solutions or put it this way, if we were Let me take that back because I don't wanna speak for anybody else. If I Yeah. Were in charge, these are some of the issues that I would tackle, and these are some of the solutions that I would actually come up with.
Anthony:Okay.
Terrance:And I have my notes here because we're talking about very important issues, and I wanna make sure that when we talk about these issues, you know, I stick to my platform and from my perspective, you know, I wanna try to deal with a couple things. I wanna address gas prices, and I know when we start talking about cycling and gas prices, it doesn't go hand in hand, but in actuality, it does. Mhmm. I wanna talk about this inflation when it comes to food.
Anthony:Yeah. And you
Terrance:know I gotta talk about the roads. Okay. I gotta talk about the roads. I wanna start with the issue with gas prices. Right?
Terrance:I was at the pump the other day, and I, I'm a age myself here, but I remember man, when gas was like a buck and change a gallon. Yeah. I think I paid 4.29, 4.26 a gallon.
Anthony:So regular? Regular. Regular?
Terrance:Regular. And this is, so I get, I tend to get gas when I drive to Providence because it ends up being cheaper than when I'm out here. So I think it was $4.29. Was $4.29 a gallon. The cost is ridiculous.
Terrance:I mean, we know why it's so high. The question becomes, how would I deal with the issue of gas prices from a cycling perspective? Okay. It's simple. I would put forth mandates, man, to build, you might laugh when I say this, bike expressways, which would allow, Jackson, would allow you to actually get to where you need to go without having to deal with a lot of the hazards that you would have to deal with on the regular road.
Anthony:I got a question about that. Yeah, yeah. Especially in New England. How the hell does that work?
Terrance:Listen.
Anthony:How does that work? Especially, I'm gonna distribute that a little bit, rebut that a little bit, because we know, like, say for example, you know, where we cycle that with in the Hemingway in that part of downtown. Mhmm. Like, how do we do that and still make it so that it's accessible all year round? That's that's my, you know, my my biggest concern would be with that.
Anthony:You know, like say for example, the city, and I'm I'm talking about the city of Providence, how, you know, how they struggled with maintaining that, you know, during the winter months or the non cycling, non peloton ish season.
Terrance:Sometimes, you gotta be the change you wanna see. We had this conversation before. I'm not talking about creating bike lanes. Bike lanes ain't gonna work. You get what I mean?
Terrance:That's why I said bike expressways. These are routes or expressways specifically for cyclists. Now.
Anthony:Without the automobile roadway?
Terrance:Oh yeah, no. We're talking
Anthony:because New York does a very, and I say that when I was in New York this weekend, New York does
Terrance:Phenomenal job, phenomenal Phenomenal
Anthony:I couldn't Phenomenal job. A cyclist, I was actually so impressed. I mean, it was so well that we probably could take something from that model and, you know, know they're always talking about New York and how bad it is, but you could you could make that a national model. Was so it was so phenomenal, and I got a picture of it too, I'll show you after we we stop recording. They literally had an Amazon truck built into a bike.
Terrance:Yeah, so now, this is where, again, I told you, I said I wanted to have some fun with this, but we wanted to talk about some of these real problems, right? There is a, I'm glad you said from a national model, if you remember, years back, we went for a ride through the city with Tim. And even back then, from a bike lane perspective, from a, I'm gonna call them expressways, there were some areas that were built up specifically
Anthony:for we cyclists. Rode by there too, and it was, my son actually mentioned, he's like, oh dad, they have all these, I mean, all these bikes, and it was all the way along through the expressway, they actually had it on the Brooklyn Bridge, they had like a cycling slash runner's path that they could go through, I mean it is, that city is very, I guess, health friendly. Yeah. And I guess because they have to because it's so congested, but they found a way to really make that work in that city.
Terrance:So think about it from this perspective, right? It probably won't affect the cost of gas, but what it would do is allow for the opportunity for less reliant on gas. At the same time, from a health perspective, going to do its benefits from the health perspective. A ozone perspective or from an emissions perspective, it's a win win. The details are the details, right?
Terrance:And as you start talking about how you would make some of this work, right, it's really dependent on where you are, Providence is, don't wanna, Rhode Island is a much smaller state, But
Anthony:Which should make it easier.
Terrance:Definitely It would make should make it it easier. It's all about, okay, well, what are you willing to support? Support, yeah. I mean, think about all the advances that we had today that that we have today that people would have said a while back, you're never gonna be able to do that. We're able to do we're able to do so many different things.
Terrance:And and you said this, New York could be a model. The challenge that we have is, from New York's perspective, what you saw was a byproduct of culture. What I mean by that is, you have a large number of people who are cyclists, who use bikes, we're all cyclists, whether, again, unicycle.
Anthony:And runners too, because they, and that's one of the things too, they, I was telling my son when we were there, it was funny because the culture of the running and the cycling, it kinda went hand in hand, like you would see the runners and the riders both utilizing that.
Terrance:Yeah. Here's the, that's a good point because now we can address this now and we have this back and forth. Here's a question that I wanna ask you. Let's say the politicians are successful and we get these expressways built. Are they dual use?
Terrance:Because what I'm gonna say is this, no walking on there.
Anthony:I agree with that.
Terrance:No walking on there. And it's not that, they're purpose built. Yep. Right? And you can have dual purpose, but the challenge becomes people are people.
Terrance:I know you said people need people, but people are people. And if I'm on my way to work and I have limited time to actually get there, and I'm on my expressway and I'm moving and there's obstructions and those obstructions aren't following the guidelines that are set forth, there's friction that's gonna come from that.
Anthony:Yep, and bottlenecking too.
Terrance:And so the question becomes, how do we navigate that? Is it a situation between particular hours of the day, this is just an expressway for cyclists? Or is it one of those things where we say, you know what, we love you,
Anthony:And they've addressed that too there. I think it's, we could utilize that similar to what they do in New York, where they have, I think it's the HOV lanes where, like between certain time frames. BOV, what is, is, where you can, you know
Terrance:No, no, I'm trying to remember what the acronyms are for.
Anthony:I don't know, but I know like in the lanes particularly, you can only have
Terrance:You gotta have two or more people.
Anthony:Two or more people in there, and then
Terrance:But how are gonna do that, you understand? No, on
Anthony:the bike Like between certain hours, can only have biking during these hours and then after these hours you can have, it can be mixed use. Like preferably through, let's say rush hour. Just bikes because
Terrance:you're See, trying to get now, now
Anthony:From point A to point B.
Terrance:Solutions oriented. See, originally, I wanna go back to you had some questions and you had some concerns, but now you're coming up with actual solutions. See, this is what it's about. This is why we need these new parties. This is why we need the politicians, the Runnercrats, Solecrats, Tripendents, whatever you wanna call them.
Terrance:But the short of it is, that accomplishes two things for me. One, I would love to ride to work. Now, the challenge currently is, and I've ridden to work a couple times, and I'll say this, I've ridden to work on my Trek, and I've ridden to work on my Ponto. The Ponto's not allowed on the bike path, right? So now this is a whole another thing.
Anthony:So excluded some Ponto's It's excluded.
Terrance:Some people. Because it's electric and So it's a class three, I had to ride on the road. And I will tell you this, at least in Rhode Island, first off, there's not enough bike lanes to actually get you to where you need to go, right? There are bike lanes, but from a perspective of, okay, well, I need to get from here into the city, They don't always exist, so now you gotta ride in traffic. They're not the most agreeable.
Anthony:And friendly.
Terrance:And friendly.
Anthony:As we know, do the same thing to cyclists. But I, but I think part of that has to do also with, like you said, the people and their views with that. Yeah. You know, and it's funny, I mean, if you think about when you're out on the road, you know, I'm always extra sensitive if I see a cyclist or a runner because I run my cycle. Exactly.
Anthony:You know, so I know, you know, if I can, I'm gonna give them space and I'm not gonna ride as close to them as I can because I know that
Terrance:You're gonna give them at least that full
Anthony:anxiety to, you know, when you're doing that. But I think a lot of that starts with, you know, when you talk about how to get it done from a collaborative piece, you know. In my mind, out of what we're talking about this, I think what would make it the most difficult is that you have all these different counties and other entities that are unable, we, you know, currently, and let's just put aside the politicians, you know, and the, the triathicons, you know, there are too many different vested interests where, you know, and that's why I'm so, like, I was so amazed, you know, from, you know, when you look at these things you don't think about, when I'm riding around and I'm looking at them, I'm like, New York is pretty much the size of, you know, or, yeah, New York City is pretty much the size of Rhode Island, you know, you think about that. And they were able to collaborate that, and they still have their different boroughs or whatever else, but they've been able to really collaborate and make it a collaborative effort. And I think that that would be one of the biggest challenges here in this little state is that you have all these different municipalities that have their own, you know, that have their own goals, they have their own values, and some that wanna keep the status quo.
Anthony:And and again, do have some that are very, you know, that they're groundbreaking that they wanna do different things. Mhmm. But I think that would be the biggest challenge and not really, I don't even think it would be the people. I think it's more of the politicians.
Terrance:I think from this perspective, and this is why, you know, the politicians are solutions oriented. From a federal perspective, whether it be a mandate, whether it be, you know, carrot and a stick, we're gonna provide funding for these projects and tie it to, you know, different things to make sure that the benefit is actually going to
Anthony:be I agree and I think you may have some of that in your notes, like, you know, as far as, even what they do from an employee perspective with their employees, we could do something similar to that, you know, where, I mean everyone does the tracking with the watches. Mhmm. Yep. Couldn't, you know, the city or their employers or something do something to the effect where, you know, if you ride a bike, you know, if you ride to bike, you ride your bike to work x number of miles or x number of days, you know, you get a health credit. Or you get a, you know, you get a bike stipe or
Terrance:a Yeah, get a federal tax credit.
Anthony:A credit, a stipend, you know, get a tax credit, or you get a credit toward your running sneakers, or your bike tune up or whatever that means.
Terrance:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anthony:Even collaborate with other local businesses, like a Johnny's business, you know, like Johnny's business where, you know, he could be a, I don't know, an approved vendor for, you know, the politicians, you know, approved vendors where if you go there you get a discount to do that. Yeah. And it helps to stimulate the economy too, and that local community too.
Terrance:Yeah, and they have, I mean they have Zero Emissions Act. I believe this is it. Well, if there's not one, we can make one. But from an emissions perspective, right, again, it's great for the environment. From a traffic perspective, we don't, outside of going over the bridge.
Terrance:The bridge. Outside of going over the bridge, Rhode Island is small enough where we don't deal with a lot of gridlock, but from cities that do deal with gridlock and things like that.
Anthony:Providence would do that.
Terrance:It would ease that.
Anthony:It definitely would
Terrance:ease that. I would love, I mean, I think the tax credit would be great because now that, you know, it aids in some of the, you know, necessary products or gear that you would need from a cycling perspective. I think that anything is possible when you get the right people together and you start thinking about it from a solutions oriented perspective, right? When I talk about, you know, some of the silly stuff with the names and things like that, that's one thing, but when we get down to the brass tacks, there are things that actually can be done to actually put this stuff into place. I mean, listen,
Anthony:right now, right now, even without those different parties, I mean, the city can easily say, you know, or whatever, the various counties, cities or whatever else can say, hey, you know, we know for example, let's say for example, there's a state sales tax. Know, from a state perspective, the state can say, just as we do currently now, we don't pay clothes, we don't pay tax on food and clothing. Mhmm. So, you could extend that to say, you don't pay sales tax on, you know, on, on your bike. Bike, gels.
Anthony:Your gels, yeah.
Terrance:Listen, I'd
Anthony:look at
Terrance:certain carbohydrate, oatmeal, rice, pasta, oh wait, actually,
Anthony:do you
Terrance:even pay tax on that stuff now?
Anthony:No.
Terrance:On your gels and stuff like On your
Anthony:gels and stuff, still do. Still do. Again, on those things, and if you think about that, that's, you know, that would be a health benefit too because sometimes they may be using alternative products because they know that they have to pay, you know, the sales tax on that versus, you know, the gel, would be, you know, which would be more healthy for them. You know, and in turn too, and like you said about the cycle effect with that, I mean, if you think about that, if you have more people that are riding and running to work, that makes healthier people, you know healthier people you know in theory don't have to go to the physicians as much because they're healthier which means if you're not utilizing as much, in theory premiums should go down because people aren't utilizing that as much. So it all has a net positive, you know, for everyone.
Terrance:Yeah, because what would probably happen is repetitive stress injuries would probably go down, right? Like you said, you'd have more, I'm trying to remember what you said.
Anthony:I think just healthier people. I mean if you had
Terrance:You would have healthier people.
Anthony:Healthier people that would be, I mean if you think about it, and we haven't done any studies on it, but you know, someone who stays active, period, is less prone, I mean aside from those things that you can't, know, like let's say if it's cancer, know, all those type of, illnesses, those you can't really, you know, steer off, but I'm talking about diabetes, I'm talking about high blood pressure, I'm talking about obesity, those particular health issues, know, people who are active, you know, and running, cycling, or whatever those other sports may be, they're less likely to have those things or than someone that is just not active, period.
Terrance:Yeah, and I would go as far to say, you know, so individuals who work in those type of environments where they don't move as much, again, goes back to they're gonna be more healthy because now, as they have the opportunity to utilize this to actually get to work, they're moving around. I would also go as far as to say, from an insurance perspective, I'd like to see some changes where your bike fit would get covered.
Anthony:Yes.
Terrance:Right, under insurance, right? You get some physical therapy covered automatically based on whether or not you participate
Anthony:I'm in gonna take it a step further, and maybe I'm radical, maybe they would call me the equivalent to a democratic socialist. I would, I would take it a step further, I would say that I wanna see, I wanna see bikes covered, I wanna see helmets covered, because that's a safety thing. I wanna say all those things, and I believe we've taken a step toward that with the flex, with the, the house spending account. They kinda sorta do it, but they make you jump through hoops to do it, whereas, you know, I gotta tell you if, you know, if someone is trying to buy a bike, and I'm not, not a Tempo T bike, or one of the bikes we ride, but just, let's just say a simple bike, an entry level bike that you can't really get no but for $1,100. Like, that should be something that should be either tax deductible or they should be able to use their health spending account to do that because that's working toward their health.
Anthony:It's not, you know, it's, know, it's, to me it's no different than if someone's going in to get braces or if someone's going in, you know, to get a prescription. Like, you'll reward people in these big corporate conglomerates for, you know, the medicine that they'll give you, but you won't reward the people for not, for trying to avoid getting on that medication that they'll need. It kinda just doesn't make sense. But I would like to see something like that, and even like you said, where the bike fits. Or even when, let's say a sports nutritionist.
Anthony:I know sometimes that isn't always covered either. Those things, you know, your sneakers, you know. I mean, we allow people, and if you think about this, for certain professions, they can write off their uniforms.
Terrance:Uniforms, yeah.
Anthony:But as a person trying to stay healthy, and you said it also, as far as, you know, with, inflation and everything else. Hell, back in the day, you know, I could get a pair of shoes for $80.90 bucks. Yeah, and it's not a buck 80, you know, and they're trying to sell them for you on sale for that. So maybe, you know, if we could do those type of things, that would help the average person who, maybe they may not be into fitness. And maybe it may make them more inclined to be able to do that if they could have some tax benefits towards them.
Terrance:See, there's a lot of merit in that and I think that a lot of that would change with a culture change. Right? I think that, so joking aside, there are a lot of issues that we currently face.
Anthony:I
Terrance:think that from a community perspective, there's so many things that are out there that are drawing your attention, that this stuff gets swept under the rug, or it's one of those things where you think that, ah, that'll never happen. But all of the stuff that you said makes sense, right? If you think about it, particularly the part about, okay, well, if I'm in a certain profession, my uniforms, I can actually write this off. But if I can use a healthcare spending account to purchase, and whatever limits, even if you put limits on it, if I
Anthony:can They purchase should be caps on
Terrance:it. Oh yeah, yeah. I mean
Anthony:it shouldn't be, like they should be at a rate of $12,000 for a bike.
Terrance:Oh yeah, you know, yeah, shouldn't be able do that.
Anthony:Exactly. I think they should be
Terrance:Within limits.
Anthony:Within limits.
Terrance:Within limits, you should be able to take, because again, at the end of the day, all it really is is you're invested in your health. And the goal is to have a healthier community so some of these costs or some of these injuries are decreased so the premiums, the overall cost, that stuff is actually going down.
Anthony:And from an independent perspective, I would say that, you know, and you said it best with the community changing it, sometimes people don't want change because the status quo keeps the status quo.
Terrance:Oh, 100%. And I think that.
Anthony:And I think we've seen that, and again, we're not gonna talk about candidates, but I think from like locally, let's say for Providence, I think that's been a clear demonstration of how, the community has spoken to say that they want the spotlight to be on their particular issues. Affordability, you know, not, you know, not these corporate conglomerates coming in buying the city up and taking away from the tax base, and they're worried about that. That's what they're worried about. You know, they're not worried about people scaring them to make it scaring them and staying off topic with the issues. You know, it's about affordability.
Anthony:And it's been about affordability, it's about who the city represents.
Terrance:Yeah.
Anthony:You know, and I, again, we're not gonna talk about the candidates, but, and I'll give you, I'm a resident of Providence, and I've said for a long time, y'know, when people say, oh, you're from Providence, and I'm like, yes, they're like, oh, I love the city. And I'm like, I love the city too, but the city's not really for me. They're like, oh, what do you mean? I'm like, first off, call it down city, it's not down city, It's downtown. But, you know, the city isn't made for people who live in the city, it's made for tourists.
Terrance:Yes. Who,
Anthony:tourists who come in and, you know, they see the spotlights of the city, but then you have all these entities, whether it be non profits, whether it be universities, hospitals, whatever else, that are so called non profits, that are in the city, and that are eating up the tax base, and then the people who, and then you have these people that are coming from outside of the city buying up the city, but the people who live in the city and then have been in the city can't afford to be in the city. And that spawned what happened. Because people are saying, you know, and again, I'm not, whatever that party is, I'm not saying that they've actually got it right, but they hit a home run with that because they went with what the people were saying, the people were saying, we can't afford the rents here because all these corporate places are coming here buying up the city in addition to the non profits that are shrinking the tax base and in turn I'm paying more as someone who lives in this city and the people here that aren't really paying their fair share.
Anthony:So that's a great example of what, I guess, us as politicians and run across, as we could do if we really put our voices together and put pressure on those appropriate politicians to say, hey, this matters. Yeah. And it may not be a big thing, it may be a small thing where, and again, I'm not saying the city had it right, but whoever had gotten in their ear at that point to say, We wanna get some bike lanes in this city, there was a start. Now with Pawtucket did the same thing, which they've done a pretty good job with that too, then that, you know, then that becomes something and it adds on and on and on. If Cumberland does that and then Woonsocket does that, and I'm, and like you say, I'm not necessarily saying, and we're not saying a bike path, forget the bike path, we're saying in the city.
Anthony:You know, in those cities where it's lane specifically where people can
Terrance:100%. So, I like the example that you used because that was a situation where individuals came together and said, okay, well, this is an area of concern for me. And I'm not going to be swayed by this cat is blue. I don't care if that cat is blue. I don't even have a cat.
Terrance:This is my area of concern. I think when I started thinking about this, like I said, there was a air of lightness to the fact that we're facing a number of issues that, when I say we, I mean everyone's facing a number of issues are really causing some challenges. When I talk about the bike expressway, part of that stemmed from this, and it's very unfortunate. The number of people who have been hit and have died by cars is too many. If it's one, it's too many.
Terrance:But it's been happening more and more. And the challenge that we face as cyclists, runners, is you're not going to win a battle against a one, two, three ton machine. You're not. You can't dictate, affect, or guess or predict what someone is going to do behind the wheel. The thing that I like about New York is those lanes are separated.
Anthony:They're separated. Totally.
Terrance:They're separated.
Anthony:Totally.
Terrance:And additionally, when you come to a traffic light, well first off, they got the traffic lights everywhere. There's no, from a culture perspective, it is what it is. When you're supposed to stop, you stop. If you're not supposed to go, don't go because if you go, you're putting your life in danger. The challenge that I have with bike lanes is they're not separated.
Terrance:The challenge I have with riding on the road is there are people out there, and we've experienced this, who don't want us on the actual
Anthony:And and I and I think what what you to to add into that, and I think you said it earlier, it really is a culture shift. You know what I'd like to see? You know, every year, Rhode Island does it. And and I have to say, it pisses me off. Not because I'm against motorcyclists, but it says, motorcycles are on the road.
Anthony:They have this big campaign Yeah. About motorcycles. Now, again, nothing against motorcyclists, but why isn't there a campaign about just cyclists? Whether it be, you know, people riding the bike, whether it's people pushing their kids and running, like it should just be about an awareness about people in general. Yeah.
Anthony:That are moving and being active. Because there is none for that, you know? And again, I'm not sure if it would cure it, but I think, you know, I've seen that sign so many different times that it's implanted in my mind. Could something to that effect, if they'd done that for a cyclist, could save one or two lives?
Terrance:Here's what it would do. It would force those individuals who have all these issues to understand that there's an eye on this. Yes. Right? There were, I'm gonna point out two situations, right?
Terrance:The first situation we were in, there there was a guy in a parking lot. There was no one obstructing him, he was in a parking lot. And he started yelling out at us all kinds of
Anthony:crap. Was that
Terrance:the way
Anthony:he said, I hope someone gets killed or something?
Terrance:He said, I hope, yeah, he said, I hope one of you die or something like that. And he's in the parking lot. Why? And then there was a situation where, I'm trying to remember because you mentioned this Bargain? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Terrance:Again, because you can't control those people, because people are people, this is why I say, listen, from the perspective of having something separate, it eliminates that. Because you can't control everyone. And what I mean by that is, there are some people who are great with it, there are some people who aren't bothered by it, there are some people who, you know, don't have an issue but may not always have the focus, but then there are people who, regardless of whether or not it's a bike lane or whatever you're supposed to be sharing the road, they don't like it.
Anthony:And I want other laws to be implemented too with that. Like I want laws to be implemented with that where, you know, whatever, and we can incorporate that with things that are in existence. Like, we got the three eleven line in their state, you know. If we see people that are violating the lane laws, we can If report we see, you know, like say for example what happened to us in Borrowville, you know, we should be able to report that. There's no outlet for any of that right now.
Terrance:Yeah, exactly.
Anthony:And I bet you if, and especially with all the other technology we have right now, so imagine if, let's say for example, and I don't believe we had them, well, I don't believe we had that technology back then. But let's just say for example, when we did do that Volvo ride, we weren't using the car backs and all that. And let's say you had your radar system
Terrance:Mhmm.
Anthony:And you were able to record that incident based on what you had, that we would be able to take that information, submit it to 311 or whoever else, and then that, you know, the only way sometime to change behavior is by hitting them in the pocketbook. Imagine if we were able to do that, we submitted that and that person was submitted a ticket.
Terrance:Yeah, so see now, here's what happens. We start having these, that's not a crazy idea, I think that's a phenomenal idea.
Anthony:No, no, I
Terrance:understand. When start thinking about, okay, well let's start thinking about some of these real world problems and try to relate them to some of the things that we actually do, I think that's a phenomenal idea. Now, you have to have a medium to accept that and then, you know, whether, whatever the system it is to say, okay, well, yep, this is this, and then mediate out judgment or whatever, I mean, that still needs to be in place. But again, I think now is the time to start thinking about some of those things and putting those things into play. And I'm going from the perspective of where we are.
Terrance:What I mean by that is, I've seen in Massachusetts, I've seen, other places where people have gotten hit by cars. I've seen a couple of videos where, you know, I saw one video where the driver fired shots at a cyclist. Wow. And the cyclist, he didn't, luckily he didn't get hit, but he was in shock because it wasn't something that he actually expected. But again, we're talking about real life situations and situations where people, there's real danger out Yes,
Anthony:and I wanna flip that also too, where I think it should be a dual approach. Because, yes, we say, you know, we say
Terrance:I hear you.
Anthony:We talk about, you know, the people and the vehicles, but we also have to talk about the cyclists too. Yeah. And I think as cyclists, and I see it all the time, you know, we have to have awareness and education for us too because you know, like, we can't say that we want other people to keep us safe but then we don't follow the traffic laws, don't follow our own safety things. You know, I, do you know how many times I've ridden and I've seen people without helmets and I'm thinking to myself like, you don't got a helmet on. Like, and even people that I know that are friends that casually ride and I'm like, you don't have a helmet.
Terrance:Yeah, not
Anthony:And they tell me, they're like, oh well I'm not going that fast and I'm like, do you know that if you're going 10 miles per hour and you fall, you still can get injured, your head can still get injured, just, you know, maybe not as much, but you still can get injured. And I think from that perspective, I think bringing the communities together too. And maybe even, you know, like what, you know, where Johnny is. Maybe even if we could have some awareness where they have local communities, I mean local, you know, get togethers where people who don't bike happen to come in and see, you know, what happens if someone's going crazy and they're not really doing what they're supposed to do and they scare a bike. What's gonna I'm really interested in that and I think really to bring it back, people need people, like we all need each other.
Terrance:Yeah, You know, we I'm on
Anthony:only need people. But very interesting conversation and when you think about, you know, even how, and it almost ties into who's in office, you know.
Terrance:Well, I think a couple things. I think I'm glad you brought up the point about, we need to, I don't wanna say police ourselves, but we need, there needs to be accountability on our side. I've seen, just like you, I've seen cyclists, for a lack of a better term, be idiots. Yeah. Not following, whether it's not following the rules of the road, whether they're doing something stupid, whether or not they're riding four or five side by side on the actual road, whether they're doing it on the bike path, those are all things that actually need to be addressed and those are things that we need to take accountability for.
Terrance:I think the other part about it is, you know, from a community perspective, I like the idea of coming together and saying, hey listen, we know that people need to do better, but we need to We do need to be accountable and we need to start putting those pieces together to make sure that that actually happens. The challenge becomes, okay, well where do we start? And this goes back to the whole thing where one of the reasons why we started to do this podcast was you gotta be the change you wanna actually see. And then the question becomes, okay, well, how do we take some of those things and move them forward? The other issue, because we went down the rabbit hole on this and I just wanna make sure that I address one other issue and come up with a solution for it because this actually affected me.
Terrance:One of the things you know I hate is I hate when we do a group ride or we're riding with someone and as we start to ride, I look at the route and it's trash. And by that, what I mean is, it's not so much the route that's trash, but it's the roads that are trash. We did a route that we picked that was someone else's routes and I got two flats from one pothole.
Anthony:I remember that. So,
Terrance:I wanna, my solution to this whole pothole thing because parts of Rhode Island are notoriously horrible for these potholes. I know in certain municipalities, if you hit a pothole and you damage a tire You can make a claim. You can make a claim. I think that that should be the same for cyclists. I think I should have been able to actually put a claim in for those two tires that I actually had to have replaced and get reimbursed for those two tires.
Anthony:I agree with that. And I think what we talked about earlier, when you hit them in a pocketbook, that's that's when the city starts to, you know, to realize that they have to make a change, you know. And again, my city providence has done a a better job than what it used to do, what it used to be as far as filling in the potholes. I think some of that is because there was an increase in people making claims. You know, when they knew they had this one spot and they were getting a lot of claims based on that, they would make a change.
Anthony:But also I think it's about bringing the people in also. You You gotta beautify your city and it doesn't really take a whole lot. I mean, a lot of these cities, and again, some of that comes back to fiscal responsibility as well. Know, a lot of these cities have, like, if you're not balancing your budget or you're not utilizing the money to go where it needs to be, you can't make sure that the roads are safe and if you can't make sure the roads are safe and your city doesn't look well, who wants to come to a city that is known for pothole heat. Yeah.
Anthony:You know, so I think, I love that idea.
Terrance:And I think also, I don't know, don't know what the turnaround time is, but I don't believe it's forty eight hours, but I believe that potholes reported to a municipality, within forty eight hours they should fill that pothole.
Anthony:I agree.
Terrance:Because that's not just for the safety of cyclists, but I mean, you have Motorists. You have motorists
Anthony:on the
Terrance:actual You
Anthony:have motorists, you have school buses. Have school
Terrance:buses, you have all these Yeah, different
Anthony:so don't about that.
Terrance:From that perspective, and again, I don't know the numbers behind what it would take to do all of this stuff. But you're taxing people. And I had this conversation with my physical therapist on Friday. He said, I get taxed all this money from my municipality. I don't know where that
Anthony:money's And I'm big on that. My thing is, and I tell people, I don't have problem, you know, and again, going back to the recent, events in Providence. That's always been my biggest thing. I don't mind, like I don't mind paying taxes, I don't mind paying, you know, taxes or what they call the the tangible taxes for prop I don't have a problem with that. But if I don't get, you know, commensurate services for the taxes, then why am I paying?
Terrance:Yeah.
Anthony:You know, and I think the average person and average citizen feels that way too. Like, if I'm paying into all this and I'm not getting a return on investment for the money that I'm making or that I'm paying year after year then it's almost like where is this going?
Terrance:Yeah.
Anthony:You know, how am I benefiting it, you know? And whether that be, you know, we're talking about the roads, but whatever that may be. You know, people want to see that, people don't mind paying, but if they're paying and they're not getting a good return on investment, like what's it for? And you said it really good, I think, and I'll bring it back, I love, I think that all cities should have time limits on not just filling the road, but whatever that may be.
Terrance:You
Anthony:know, like, just as we would in business, I mean if someone opens a ticket you know, for what you do, you have a timeline on what they're supposed to do.
Terrance:Yep, there's SLAs.
Anthony:You know, if a customer calls in and they have a complaint, I have a time requirement that I have to respond to that. Why doesn't the city or the local municipalities or the state for that matter, like, there has to be checks and balances and accountability. You said that word, accountability.
Terrance:Yeah. And that's, again, systems in place so the service level agreements can not up not just be in effect, but they can be monitored and then you can be held accountable when you break those. I just wanna switch for for for a second, because the politicians have been taking up a good portion of that.
Anthony:And and I know you're you're bringing it from a three tiered approach, but that's not really how we have to look at it. Think
Terrance:No, yeah.
Anthony:No, but I think looking at it from, I know we talked about the political parties, I think we talk about this, even though we haven't gone into that, it's shown how a lot of the issues, they intersect and they cross over.
Terrance:They do and that's one of the reasons. So here's the realism behind it. When you look at our current government, well, when you look at the current political makeup, there is one party that, for the most part, really, really never moves anything. Right? So I always said this, we need to have a third party that has the ability to move.
Terrance:Because what happens is people end up in one of these two, you know, parties or groups and they could never come to agreement on a whole bunch of things, but if you had a strong third, right, then that third would be able or should be able to actually, you know, to navigate or to make it a bit more fair, right? So when I said I wanted to switch, I just wanted to switch because we've been talking a lot about the roads and we did mention, you know, from the healthcare perspective, adding shoes and things like that. But, from a sidewalk perspective, when we start talking about running, the difference between cycling and running is from a running perspective, at least for me, I tend to stay on the sidewalks. I don't run-in the street unless the sidewalk is restricted or it's for one particular reason and I have to go in the street. The other difference is when I am running and I'm in the street, I'm running in the direction of oncoming traffic.
Terrance:I do that as well. So I can see them and they can actually see me, right? So I wanted to switch over to the Runner Kretz perspective for a second because from a safety perspective there are some things that I think you may wanna address when it comes to sidewalks and that running piece or even if you go back to the bike path. That's where I'll go. I'll go to the bike path because from a cycling perspective, there's one thing that some runners do that really causes an issue from a safety perspective, not just for cyclists but for the runners themselves.
Terrance:I know everyone likes their music. Mhmm. But you can't, you can't let your awareness slip because you like to jam out. I agree. And I'll use, I'll use East Bay as an example because East Bay gets really crowded, congested with people.
Terrance:And as you know, when we bike and we're coming up on someone and say, coming up on your left, coming up on your right, this, that, and the other. But if you can't hear that, and then all of a sudden, you brake to make your turn. Listen, we're gonna meet.
Anthony:And and I and I think with with that particular I think and, again, I that could be a simple fix where it's education. Like, just as, you know, we say that there are limitations on what type of e bikes can be used on a bike path. The same thing can be, you know, with them educating, the walkers or runners or whoever else there. You know, so both you and I, both runners and bikers, we understand that, so, and I have, you know it's all about the music for me.
Terrance:Yeah, yeah,
Anthony:But I've actually, since we've had discussions about that, you know, it's easy to do, I mean you can wear open ear you know, headphones that
Terrance:I started using one.
Anthony:Yep. Yep. I I actually I used to use the the in earbuds, but when we all go, I use the actually I think you, you had them and then Cort actually put me on to those where use the open ones so I can hear everything, I still can hear the music with that. And I think that's an alternative to that, but I think that's a simpler fix to that is the educational piece of that, for saying, you know, and it should be kind of common sense, you know, especially with the people that are using the East Bay bike pass and those bike pass, you obviously know that there's always cyclists there.
Terrance:Oh
Anthony:yeah, And you, you know, even if you're not a cyclist, you've had to have heard someone say, Anya left, you know, like, like that's a kind of common thing. If you're a regular runner, and not just someone who just happens to be out there from time to time.
Terrance:Yeah, and I think if we had a bike expressway, would also, but again, that comes back to the dual use. If it's a single use during particular hours, then that would eliminate that, but at the same time, yeah, that's a solution to part of those. And then sidewalk issue, I
Anthony:got a really simple solution to that. And I think, again, you have the different local municipalities, so that's always gonna be an issue with that piece. But I think from a city ordinance perspective too, again, you know, and it's funny that we're talking about that because if you run, and I don't really like the sidewalk, I actually do what you said, I run-in the street in the opposite direction because, like, sometimes those sidewalks, if they're uneven,
Terrance:like,
Anthony:you can catch it, I caught about it a couple months ago, and you can't really see it, but I think with that, again, the ordinances where you know, you're keeping, you know, the city, it shouldn't take the city, you know, six, nine, ten months, you know, if there's unleveled or if there's, you know, abnormalities in the sidewalk to do that. But also, some of the, and I don't know if you find it, but I find it more in the commercial piece of it. You know, the piece that I actually happened to fell on was a commercial area where it was, where like, where the Dunkin' Donuts was. So, you know, and a full collaboration with the local businesses, the city, you know, and, you know, whatever local running clubs, biking clubs, whatever else to be able to report those things. Yeah.
Anthony:Similar to like a three eleven piece where, you know, if you have something, I've seen it where they have like the orange on there and it stays there, we know because we run, you know I've seen it four or five you know weeks there, like should it take that long to get it fixed.
Terrance:Two things with that, and I'll do the easy one first. From a community perspective, I think there's something that could be done or something that should be at least discussed where if there are a bunch of running groups and as you come across these things, being able to build some form of, for lack of a better term, database about, excuse me, these areas that may have some of these hazards. Second thing
Anthony:Strava could do that. Strava, listen, we're looking for sponsors, we'll you that idea, you can put that on the Strava map just like you got a heat map, you got a deformity map.
Terrance:The second part about that is, it's a question. Because what we have to make sure that we're doing is we're looking at this from all angles. Are there certain areas that runners shouldn't be allowed to actually run when we start talking about these sidewalks based off population density. What I mean by that is obviously people, there's gonna be people using the actual sidewalks, Population density, location, and things like that because there are some areas where if you're running and you have congestion from people who are moving back and forth on the sidewalks, right, traffic is not conducive to you running in the street.
Anthony:I agree. I agree. I mean, I think it's no different than like there's, you know, certain expressways, or they say there's no bikes or no runners or whatever allowed on it. I think that should be, the same for runners as well. For their safety.
Terrance:Yeah.
Anthony:You know, I mean, I happen to, to run-in Providence, in the Elmwood section where, you know, it crosses a highway, and it goes into where Roger Williams Park is. So it is heavily congested, but, you know, the people have to be able to walk and run to get into the park. So, you know, I don't, and again, I don't know if that's something where they could, you know, have it to where it's, you know, well first off to make sure that it's safe in this level because they're always doing, like they've done, they've done construction over there for as long, and I'm not complaining because it's kind of like an oxymoron. We can't say that the roads aren't really good and everything's not good but then that they're doing construction too long. It's always like that balance piece of it, you know, but at the same time too where, you know, you wanna make sure that, you know, it's safe and at its level, just for the walkers, I mean the runners, but the walkers too.
Anthony:Yeah. And just everyone, you know, that's there in the community as well. So kinda juggling all those different pieces, but I like that idea where, and it's kinda going on a rabbit hole, which I've been doing this this whole episode because it's it's been a free form conversation.
Terrance:This is what happens when you get up to the podium and you start debating.
Anthony:Yes, you start debating. Just as, you know, how the the community and the organizations solve the problem. Road racing is a is a great example of that. How when the runners are out there and the runners were racing and they had the gels, the goo and all that, how they wanted to be, you know, more of an environmentally friendly running group. Yeah.
Anthony:So, running organization, so what they did is, they do the plugging or whatever that is, which is phenomenal. Now, people would just say, Oh, they should clean up bathroom sales. No, they do more than that. They not only do they clean up the things that are there that are associated with that particular race, but also things that are there that are non, you know, race and non runner specific. Which is again, it contributes to the whole society and it isn't just, you know, a race based community thing.
Terrance:Yeah, and so, community is a big part of that, and shout out to Susan and Karen. Again, I saw Karen yesterday, but again, what they built should be modeled. But, I wanna go back to the part about, you said, you know, collaboration. That collaboration is really what it actually takes. I mean, talked about a lot of stuff today, but being able to come together and collaborate or at least have a conversation about different ideas about, whether it be from the running side, from the cycling side, you can say triathlete, but I ain't getting in that water.
Terrance:But I think coming together and have a conversation, a legit conversation, a realistic conversation, because again, there are a lot of these things that you can have a conversation about, but from a realistic perspective, it'll be a long time before you can do anything about it. I think the biggest one is, and this is where, I give another shout out to road races, the biggest one is safety. Yes. When you start talking about the safety, and I go back to marshaling or doing the bike leads, when they put the cones out and they have the people who are running and people are running outside of those cones, they say no, you stay within those cones. That's for your safety.
Terrance:Even if you're actually doing, I remember this vividly. I was bike lead and it was, I believe it was Jamestown. I think it was Jamestown. You know how when you turn in and turn in, you're supposed to be on the left. I turned in and I came down on the right.
Terrance:And Susan was like, Terrance, get on the left. Because, again, you're leading these people in, and if I go down the wrong side, One, it's not safe for me, but now I'm leading these other people back here. So, coming back to having a conversation about starting small and saying, hey listen, let's have a conversation about A. Collaborate pull all those things together. But that doesn't mean, and I'll wrap up with this, that doesn't mean that all those things from the perspective of, hey listen, if I'm buying running shoes, I should be able to use my HSA for that.
Terrance:If I need to go get a bike fit, I think a part of that should be covered by my healthcare or at least I should be able to use an HSA for that. There are all these different things that would and should in my mind be beneficial to us as a community, us as a society, from a health perspective, whether it be individual health, whether it be environmental health, that we should start having conversations about that could then expand out to a lot of the issues that we're actually facing currently, whether it be affordability, and I can take affordability and say affordability from a housing perspective to affordability from n plus one. I got one bike, I need two. You know, and all those different things. So I think it was a great conversation.
Terrance:I think that it's something that we should have more conversations, about in the future.
Anthony:And before, my wrap up comment will be, I love the collaboration piece, I think it always comes back to that, for me, that people need people thing. But about that collaboration, yes, we're not gonna solve all the issues at one point in time, but I love what you're saying about we should all come together because I think a lot of times we're so separated and whatever those political parties may be, you know, and for whatever reasons.
Terrance:Yeah.
Anthony:You know, instead of us saying, you know, we have these three parties, let's say, well, what do we have in common that we need to solve? You know, and if we can come to that collaboration, and maybe, for example, you know, with what we're saying, again, it starts small, maybe that starts from a local perspective where, you know, the runners and the bikers get together and say hey, we, you know, because it only changes if it hits them in the pocketbook or at the ballot box. So hey, you know we have, I don't know, 200,000, you know, runners and cyclists and we vote in x y z a b c and we wanna see this on the ballot. Just as we would, you know, when they come here and they want us to vote on these bonds, you know, to improve these schools or the universities. Hell, why couldn't we do something like that?
Anthony:I'd love to see the collaboration piece from that perspective and, you know, and do it as I believe they've done in the city or province with the latest, male race where they started from a grassroots, a small grassroots and they built that up based on, people that had different commonalities and they were able to collaborate and put the things that they could put aside and like you said, not be distracted with these shiny little things over here but what really matters that's gonna make a profound difference.
Terrance:Yeah. So I'm gonna end like this because perspective is a beautiful thing. And, again, I wanted to do this to kinda play a little bit on the election cycle, but you said something that really caught me. And it makes so much sense that I can't understand that people haven't already looked at it from this perspective. Forget about parties.
Terrance:Let's focus on what we have in common. Let's focus on what we have in common to work towards solving some of these issues that we all face, whether you're a runner, cyclist, mom, dad, whoever. Let's focus on what we actually have in common to work on, to work towards coming up with some solution oriented ideas. So with that in mind, keep those wheels turning, keep those feet moving, we'll see you on the road.
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